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Vikings Discussion & Random Thoughts
Vikings-Steelers
Man, that was a frustrating game to watch. The offense moved the ball and won the time of possession battle, but could not score points for most of the game. The blocking, especially the O-line, was abysmal. For the second half of the game, the tackling was not good, I saw numerous bad angles and attempted arm tackles. Wentz performed admirably, especially considering the situations he faced. The two interceptions were not on him, both were tipped/deflected. The offense that KOC planned was not working, especially with 60% of the starting O-line out of the game, yet they didn’t seem to make the right adjustments until it was pretty much too late. The game/clock management on that last drive was really bad, too.
I hope O’Neil isn’t injured as badly as I fear he is. I haven’t seen an update, maybe I missed it.
The team is 2-2 and in my opinion, will be contending for the division title. It’s been a rough start to the season, there are too many injuries, and the team, especially the offense, has looked out of sync and rusty. Yet, the team is 2-2 and in position to take off if they can get the offense firing on all 8 cylinders. Next up is the Browns, another overseas morning game. Let’s hope the Vikings get on track in time for that one. SKOL!!!!!!!
Vikings and NFL News
Stats and highlights from yesterday’s game, courtesy of ESPN.
Vikings.com has observations from yesterday’s game, full highlights from the game, and hear/see Kevin O’Connell address the media after the game.
Lamar Jackson is dealing with a hamstring injury after yesterday’s loss to the Chiefs, details from NFL.com. Also, Patrick Mahomes became the fastest in NFL history to reach 250 passing touchdowns.
The Giants had a good game with Dart taking over at QB, that’s the good news. The bad news is that Malik Nabers may have torn his ACL in the win, per NFL.com.
Media Selection
I like Chase Hughes, and I see he was on Rogan, so here you go. Enjoy!
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So CJ Ham has been on IR and is eligible to return now (after week 4). He would take a roster spot, so someone would need to fall off it for his return.
Does KOC want to reinstate him to the active roster? How come no “journalists” ask KOC questions like this?
He could help with Pass Pro.
True
Wow… thanks for massively informative update (that tells us nothing)
Better than a MCL tear.
Or a MCL and ACL tear.
Sprains are hard to determine how long they take to heal up.
As I understand it, there are different “grades” of sprains, that are usually used to determine the normal length of healing. I always thought the lowest grade (Grade 1) was about 6 weeks to heal.
‘Lowest’ = Least Worse??
Yes
The Texans have released Irv Smith. Just when he was about to break out too.
The guy can’t catch a break!
This is oddly appropriate…
I saw a video of Jim Harbaugh after he was hired by the Chargers. He said building the O-Line was the #1 priority. Then he said building the D-Line. He knows football.
yessir…
100%
Hi Kathy, good to see you around!
Twinkies fire Rocco.
Start of a purge? Ownerships next??
https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/breaking-news/article/twins-dismiss-longtime-manager-rocco-baldelli-after-missing-playoffs-for-a-2nd-straight-season-200113669.html
In my not-so-humble opinion, Nothing will matter until there is a change of ownership.
Blue Jays are in. My marginal interest in MLB can now awaken.
Interesting data here…
4 games. Lots of season left.
True, but 4 games of poor play, is still 4 games.
At least we didn’t do anything like this yesterday…
Holy cow. I did not see that. I’d be so upset as a fan.
Me too… I mean seriously…
Vikings have the 3rd highest sack rate in NFL history right now… Hear that guys? We’re the third best EVER!
Yay us!!!
According to PFF, Wentz was pressured 21 times but 6 were on him for holding the ball to long, they also said he was responsible for 4 of his sacks….
In other words, yes the Oline is shaky but Carson needs to get rid of the ball.
Heard something Bill Belichik said about PFF grading a couple of years ago. Unless they know the playcall and route scheme (and blocking) as well as the defensive coverage, he wondered how they could accurately grade a play.
That aside, my untrained eyes would have seen this differently – like pretty crappy blocking.
Oh I think both are probably true…Wentz wasn’t great, held the ball too long, and the OLINE was not good either…makes for a bad combo.
Well, there’s a common theme here. They said Cousins held the ball too long, they said Mullins held the ball too long, they said Darnold held the ball too long. And more recently JJ and now Wentz.
Guess this team just picks up a bunch of slow thinking QB’s?
Methinks our chances of winning a SB are dismal with all these slow thinking QBs aka shitty pass protection and long developing plays.
Unless we face a string of opponents that just don’t feel like rushing the QB hahahahaaaa.
I never thought Cousins held the ball too long or Darnold.
and JJs sample size is just too small and he is too new.
Yeah, holding the ball “too long” is a pretty subjective and feckless commentary. What criteria is there to determine this? Too many variables in my opinion. Irresponsible to make those kinds of statements.
Was being a bit tongue in cheek, just reporting what I had read here at various times.
I agree with JR on this. How long is “too long” and is it a coaching point to hang onto the ball till the last possible second before letting it go? KOC has made it clear he expects his QB’s to “stand in there” and take a hit. We also run a lot of long developing routes. So this PFF take doesn’t hold much water IMO. I know PFF employs people to do film reviews and grade things for them. Some of the people they have on staff to do this have no background or experience in football. I read an article on this a couple years ago. So subjective things like this don’t carry much weight.
A QB throws the ball as soon as he has something he thinks he can complete. He is looking for a number of things post snap to accomplish this.
Interesting data here…
Yikes! I knew it was bad, but not that bad. Hard to watch for sure.
Damn you beat me to it.
Typical Vikings fan cross to bear:
Our opponent will always come in with a history of averaging less than 1.5 (sacks per game) (tackles for loss) (pressures). By halftime the color commentator will be orgasmic.Our opponent will always come in with a history of averaging (less than 50 yards rushing)(less than 100 yards receiving)(4+sacks taken/game)(2+ INTs against). By the end of the third quarter the color commentator will be into his third refractory period, smoking a cigar.By mid season our opponent will have a historical rate of (negative PF/PA ratio)(fewest TDs scored)(most FGs and XPs missed). By the end of the game the color commentator will have given a ring to the opponent.
I’d be surprised if Wentz isn’t on the injured list this week with some sort of rib injury. Getting to be a bit dangerous playing QB for the Vikings.
Probably got conjunctivitis from Irish turf getting rubbed in his left eye.
I heard that happened…
Are there any OT/OG’s that we can sign off the street to try and patch this wet-paper bag off an offensive line?
Asking for a friend.
The friend being my favorite foosballs team…..
🔨🔨🔨
Cam Robinson would have been a good get, he did reasonable well last year for Darrisaw. Too bad the Brownies lost a OT a week ago and had a head start on us when we lost Potato and they got him first.
At this point of the season, they would need to trade for one.
And even that is a crap shoot since they would need to learn and gel.
In other words….we are fuked.
For the moment, the whole team hasn’t lived up to it’s preseason expectations necessarily, but we need to score 24 points as a minimum to be in games.
Well, there’s this…
when i’m watching the game live, i just see him kind of always JUST a little late to plays.
always JUST a titch behind.
Like Wentz…he processes too slowly
The Browns are trading for the Texans offensive tackle Cam Robinson in exchange for a swap of late-round picks in 2027.
The Browns had a need at offensive tackle after Dawand Jones suffered a season-ending injury in Week 3. He underwent surgery last week to repair a torn LCL and hamstring avulsion.
Cleveland has used four different starting offensive line combinations in as many games because of offensive tackle injuries. In addition to Jones’ season-ending injury, right tackle Jack Conklin has missed the past three games because of an elbow injury.
‘Cleveland has used four different starting offensive line combinations in as many games’
Sounds familiar.
Yep
does the NFL not call “hip drop” tackles anymore?
i’m fairly certain wentz was sacked with a hipdrop that COULD have been dangerous but his body fell to his knees vs like backwards…
also…we horsecollared Arodg but because he was “in the pocket” it doesn’t count?
I DON’T GET THE RULES AT ALL
You aren’t supposed to.
By design.
Yeah, there are a lot of rules that are ridiculous. I have always had a problem with the “illegal hands to the face” rule for instance. If anyone touches a receivers facemask, or a QB’s, or a lineman’s in the process of a play (even inadvertently) it’s a 15 yard penalty. However, receivers and running backs can use their hands on a defenders helmet during a stiff arm, without penalty. That’s BS.
Never thought d holding or even DPI should necessarily be an automatic 1st down, for instance, 3rd and 27 and receiver is held on a 10 yrd out. Automatic first. Seems over board.
Totally agree on that, for sure.
On the flip side if a defensive back gets burned deep, all he has to do is grab the receiver and only get 15 yards. That does not seem fair either.
5 yards I think…
The Douche tackle was by the jersey without actually a hand in/gripping the collar.
I was expecting a flag since it violated The Douche’s ‘civil rights’ but it didn’t happen.
“Horse collar does not apply to the QB in the pocket” was the explanation given.
That is the rule. No idea why.
Perhaps the horse collar is less dangerous in the pocket, unlike yanking down a RB going full speed past you.
Reminds me of a certain phantom facemask/horse collar on a failed Hail Mary play in Detroit…can’t remember who benefited from that call…I’m sure the NFL didn’t feature the do over Hail Mary a THOUSAND times in highlight reels the next season.
Yeah, someone touched his shoulder near his neck and he turned his head…. FACEMASK so they get another play and then win due to defensive incompetence. Rodgers was the hero. They set up games for him to win all the time. Not so much anymore since he called the NFL people “stooges” for the whole vaccination thing, but he got some nice calls for his team on Sunday.
This makes no sense.
The #Vikings open up as 5.5 point favorites against the #Browns ahead of their matchup next Sunday in London, per @DKSportsbook
.
https://twitter.com/vikingzfanpage/status/1972469672919568577
Cleveland has no offense. We could win 7 – 0.
Probably with a defensive TD.
I wouldn’t be so sure…. I think whoever their QB is (rumblings of a change), we’ll make them look like Mahomes probably.
If you truly believe that… then make it make CENT$!
Exactly.
Maybe that line is the over under on 5.5 sacks for Myles Garrett.
I read this yesterday looking around. Don’t know if it’s true but it is strange.
Said — Ingram is the highest rated guard in the league. Bradbury is the third ranked center and Cleveland is in the top 25 percentile.
WOW
Wow…according to PFF
So maybe it is the coaching that’s incompetent….
Actually it just took me back. Have no idea.
Yeah I saw that one a week ago… so I am hoping as the weeks go by reality sinks in lol.
Not to change the topic but….
Netanyahu just arrived at the WH to discuss the ‘New Peace Plan’ with DJT. I think that those two can agree to anything that they want but Hamas won’t make any meaningful change. Heck a bunch of countries just rewarded them by recognizing them as a State/Country.
It is a similar problem as Russia. You can come up with lots and lots of plans have lots of discussions and meetings but until Russia wants to end the war it will go on.
Both are similar problems, one side does not want peace so there will be none until that changes. Good on Trump for continuing to try but the answer is either to go ‘scorched earth’ or give up. IMHO of course.
Such has always been the way with bad actors in the world. We want peace, and they know this. They inherently understand this weakness in our desire for an end to killing, and play the card when it benefits them. Trump and Netanyahu must get this dynamic though. Hamas has to be wiped out. Completely. Without its elimination, there will never be peace. They have trained their children to hate and kill Jews. There is a whole generation waiting to take up arms and destroy Israel. Peace is fleeting with these actors. They’ve suffered enough losses now, that they are ready to regroup and regenerate.
Yeah, they get brainwashed from an early age.
Yep
The Russia one may get worked out. The Middle East/Israel never.
So gameplan for Sunday…. every possession, spike the ball 3 times and punt, hoping the defense will score for us.
Also, I find it interesting people making excuses for Wentz regarding the “tipped ball” interceptions. Wasn’t it Kirk’s fault he threw low passes and also “patted the ball” before the threw, so lineman knew he was going to throw it? Also, Kirk didn’t get the “poor line play” excuse, that wasn’t allowed. All QB’s should win all games no matter the circumstances, I think was the gist of it.
The “only the QB is responsible for wins and losses” crew would tell you this.
Any QB that throws a tipped ball, is at fault.
QB gets paid to do their job, and their job is to throw a catchable ball.
Nothing was EVER kirko’s fault.
Always a plausible excuse for him.
In fact, Kirko got credit for the Atlanta win because he ran the scout team on the defense at practice. Not even on the field playing the game, but Kirko gets credit. Ridiculous. Defending Kirko at all costs.
4th quarter comeback wins are also allowed for Kirko, even though wins are not a QB stat.
Just out of curiosity, WHO EVER SAID. ” Nothing was EVER kirko’s fault”?
Nobody, which is why this comment is totally laughable.
You ALWAYS give Kirko an excuse as to why something didn’t work.
Sometimes yes sometimes no, sometimes it was everyone’s fault
Agreed.
No, I don’t… stop lying.
Every time I criticized Kirko, it wasn’t his fault.
The OL. The Receiver, The play call. The list is endless.
Just last week Bow posted a pass by Kirko 30 yards away from any Vikings receiver, and right into the hands of a Bear’s defender.
WHO ?
The one where the WR fell down?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
JRo_42 you are correct.
2023.
Kirko fumbles the ball.
Comments on this site.
“That was Ed Ingrams fault”
What’s wrong with you – are you shittin me! Show the GD play and let folks decide Ingram knocks the ball out of Cousins hand.
Cousins made mistakes but that sure as hell wasn’t one of them!
Like I said, the defense of Kirko is well documented.
On some nameless play you don’t show anyone? This is bullshit, as usual.
Well wouldn’t you say everythings kirko’s fault is just as bad.
This particular play – you brought it up as an example – who’s fault.
QB’s don’t fumble the ball on purpose. They do mishandle a snap sometimes for sure, but usually, they get hit by a great big man, very hard, who knocks the ball loose. Usually.
Was that one of the times Ingram stepped on his foot?
That was another time. This was the time Ingram actually swung his arm and knocked the ball out of Cousins hand.
Based on what DE posted, I have no idea what play he is referencing, but you’re probably right.
First game of 23 season against Bucs. Believe it was second quarter. And good old Ed knocks the ball out of Cousins hand.
Now, this is just my opinion, but I do not believe there’s ever been a QB at any level who practices in anticipation of his OWN lineman knocking the ball from his hand.
In the end, DE holds Cousins to some impossible standard where he is culpable for everything. He insists that folks who point out there are simply things that occur Cousins cannot control, are just “defending” him which is ridiculous.
Cousins has a passer rating of 101.2 with 23,265 yards, 171 touchdowns and 55 interceptions in 88 games for the Vikings. Those are spectacular numbers. They are especially awesome considering in his six seasons, he had 5 OC’s and an O-line that was not very good. Every single OC he played for, wanted him to play a different game. Even KOC changed his footwork for some reason. After Cousins had played with his right foot forward in the gun when he set up his whole career, KOC insisted he change to having his left foot forward. The changes KOC made to his play actually hurt Cousins statistically his first year under him BTW.
rec’d for truthiness.
Oh yeah, that one.
Obviously KCs fault.
one thing i learned yesterday. I need to be careful how i act about the team around my son. he was realllly down yesterday and i thought it was ridiculous for him to be so down about the vikings and then i was like crap, that’s ME.
so more optimism from me.
it’s fun! it’s sports and entertainment and it’s a fun bonding time witih the kids. enjoy the games, win or lose and move on.
also vikings suck
Yeah, can’t take it too hard, he’ll lean eventually that they will ALWAYS end up disappointing so just shrug and say, yep, that’s the Vikings!
My wife is very emotional about her Ravens. I have tried to be a good example, but so far it hasn’t worked. Grin.
They’re having a rough season so far and now lemur is injured too
Yep… she was really pissed yesterday. She turned the game off at halftime.
‘Hope for the best but expect the worse’ saw me thru yesterday.
The Teacher got up just after the game ended and I was able to put it aside and get on with my day. I thought about it off and on during the day but there was stuff to do, errands to run and dinner to make.
Since I expect the worst it doesn’t effect me quite so much when it happens. Works for me anyway.
I honestly have just as much fun jeering the Vikes as cheering the Vikes. I have a good time either way. Since they are pros, they get paid to experience both.
This is one way to look at it.
I mean, I have used Vikings games as comic relief, because that is what they have been most of my life.
I can get that way.
Like pissed and agitated when the Vikings lose.
Fortunately, I wasn’t able to watch the game.
So I didn’t get my emotions all churned up.
I get seriously agitated when they lose for about 24 hours.
As I have gotten older I have mellowed some, I no longer beat my wife or kick the cat.
I definitely was in a mellow mood yesterday, helped that I didn’t start watching the game until 3 pm and flew through all the falderal and just watched the actual plays so didn’t have to listen to the announcers fawn over Rodgers, etc…was a beautiful day here and I enjoyed it muchly.
This time of year I am starting to miss my old choco Tuck that I lost in April. Bird season coming up and he LOVED football games, as I would throw a ball non stop for him to release tension. As soon as he heard that opening gameday music intro his tail would start wagging and he’d go pull his ball out of the basket.
That is a cute story about Tuck
Oh joy.
https://notthebee.com/article/the-nfl-has-chosen-cross-dressing-queer-icon-bad-bunny-to-play-the-super-bowl-halftime-show
Better than Taylor Swi…..
Ok maybe not.
Whoever is picking these halftime artists needs to go, won’t happen though because NFL knows their core audience isn’t going any where and they want to draw in any fringe viewers they can.
My solution is I never watch the halftime show.
Me neither…..
Truth.
Have never watch any halftime show.
The old good ones (aka Prince) I was overseas and couldn’t watch. The more recent bad ones I choose not to watch.
There’s a halftime show?
Line play is catching hell, and rightfully so. But wonder about something.
KOC came here in 22. We have really had crappy line play in 22, 23, and 24 as well. So, this is not a new thing. Yet we scored a lot of points and most thought KOC was the next McVay.
KOC has also said he requires his QB to stand tough in the pocket, hold the ball and later deliver knowing he is going to take a big hit. He likes and expects that. Makes one believe he believes in throwing the ball down the field.
There were times in 21 Stafford got destroyed with the Rams and they looked like hell. McKay (and KOC) cchanged nothing and kept to what they believed in. It worked out and they went on to win the SB.
Can never see KOC being a dink and dunk guy.
The offensive thought process in this scheme is, sooner or later that big play is going to happen. That deep crosser to JJ is going to be there, and the QB will have just enough time to get the throw off. The deep crosser is a very hard route to cover, and if the QB can hang in for a second or two longer (which is a long time in the NFL) it’s gonna work.
I think KOC has a heathy amount of… people just need to do their GD job! He shouldn’t have to adjust if people just do their job… I get that. Also, sometimes you need to adjust when you are dealing with loads of injuries especially.
True, but also think there is a Part Two.
We run McVay’s passing scheme. On every route pattern, there are “short” routes available.
Also, this a dynamic route running concept. If receivers are looking down the line and see a blitz, they are suppose to alter their routes, and depending where the pressure is coming from, get open very quickly.
I just don’t understand why with all the weapons in this team KOC insists on trying to get QBs killed. Where are any concepts to take advantage of defenses being overly aggressive? Any time this coming weekend that Myles Garrett is lined up on Skule, just have an audible to a run, screen or quick pass lol… it’s not gonna be pretty. Really need a healthy OL yeesh.
This. He sticks with his original gameplan far too long when it’s not working, which has been pretty much every game so far.
This should be KOC when game planning:
Like screens and draws to slow down rush. But also believe if a defense is going to be overly aggressive you must make them pay to get out of it. Leave a back and TE in for blocking, and then hit JJ one on one on a deep route. Couple of those shots and they will back off. If you don’t hurt them, they’ll keep coming.
Now a guy like Garrett, go in with a game plan you can’t block him with just one blocker, help on every play.
We can eliminate a lot of this by simple formation adjustments. Running a 2X2 with a RB and TE that can shift into a 4X1 forces the defense to move at least 7 of their players into coverage and is really the best way. We have enough speed and skill position players to force defenses into a cover two or cover three shell all game.
Seems like we ran some “quick hitters” and draws that were largely unsuccessful. Pitt was daring us to throw deep cause they knew our Oline couldn’t hold up. I think we were screwed no matter what we did. I think next week will likely be more of the same, we currently don’t have the horses up front to allow the offense to function.
Yeah but a no gain run play, bubble screen, etc… is better than a 5-10 yard sack loss and dead QB.
There are concepts that will work Edge. A four by 1 overload formation can be a solution. That formation eliminates an 8 man front, and seriously stresses a 7 man front. The number of play combinations is significant, which forces the defense to make some complex reads and synchronize their post snap adjustments, or risk having a receiver completely uncovered. It’s a very effective strategy for overly aggressive fronts.
What’s really disconcerting is I understand this, I believe KOC understands this… I worry that if he even did this he’d call a long developing pass play and Myles Garrett will single handedly wreck whatever poor schlub is stuck behind that OL lol
Not to bring up Cousins on a Monday (grin) but I saw him run this against a pressure defense, and beat it back with one play for a TD early in the game. Ran a bunch formation, with the TE on his right side, and WR on his left. The defense was all crowding the line of scrimmage and coming. He took the snap and immediately tossed the ball on a lob throw to one of the wide receivers out to his right, who took off for a long TD down the sideline. That one throw changed the defensive fronts he faced for the rest of the game.
Formations, coupled with excellent QB play, can force the defense off the line.
Riiiiiight… do we have a QB at that caliber is the real question in this scenario.
Well, not really. Neither Wentz or McCarthy are really fast processors. Wentz though has seen all sorts of fronts and post snap changes to have a better level of understanding than McCarthy. He’s simply way ahead in his ability to know what the defense is doing. Remember, the defense wants the QB to go where they want him to go with the ball. They want him to throw the ball to a place on the field he thinks is “safe”. Then they jump the route and pick him off. They do this with pressure, and disguised coverages.
Going into the season, we felt that both the O-line and D-line had been bolstered significantly. The O-line though has been limited all year by first Darrisaw being out, then Skule, then Jackson, then O’Neil, and now Kelly. The D-line hasn’t been as strong against the run as we expected either. Things aren’t working out very well right now. We’ve only played four games, and we only have two losses. So we’re not in desperate times yet. I don’t know how we get better though.
This
Vikings players that have missed time:
Starting LT
Starting RT
Starting Center
Starting LG
Starting QB
Starting RB
Starting WR
Starting ILB
Starting OLB
Starting Safety
Starting CB
But like… do you think injuries are affecting the team? (saw someone actually ask this on a Facebook Vikings page)
People always say “next man up” in the NFL, but when you’re consistently playing your second string guys against their stars, it’s a disadvantage.
I think the season is over as far as playoff expectations. Tough schedule. Tough division. It is all about getting JJ reps and seeing what he has now.
Maybe some Brosma even next week if Wentz is dinged.
My next take is that if Kwesi and KOC don’t have a playoff win next season, they should be done. If a regime can’t get a playoff win in five years, move on. It’s the NFL. Results are expected. There are always hungry candidates to choose from. Don’t have to stay married to guys forever.
I kind of agree… then I kind of also think moving on too quickly gives me nightmares of turning into the Bears changing HCs all the damn time lol.
Yeah, I get that.
Zimmer and Speilman burned that feeling out of me. I am now fully ruthless when it comes to the lifespan of coaches and GMs. Honestly, I wouldn’t even give coaches/GMs five years if I was in charge.
I’d be like, “What is your three-year plan? If you aren’t in the playoffs by year two and win one by year three, there will not be a year four…”
But that is just me. Not saying it is right, and it is all mental fantasy anyway, but I really view things through a lens of…if you haven’t hit on your QB and trenches, you are wasting everyone’s time.
I know what McCarthy “has” and it ain’t much. He is years away from being a bona fide NFL QB. He has a good arm, and he’s athletic. That’s it. In the NFL, every QB has a good arm, and is athletic. Even with an entire year under his belt learning the offense, and watching Sam Darnold execute it though, McCarthy found out what facing a real NFL defense looks like. It’s the ability to know where to go, when the first read and even the second read isn’t there, and the pocket is collapsing. It’s knowing what a defense is likely to do post snap, knowing the keys to look for, and going quickly to the right guy. It’s knowing when to hold onto the ball, and when to throw it away. Love showed great processing on that last drive against the Cowboys last night. Very, very, very fast. McCarthy couldn’t have pulled that off.
Wentz is far more experienced, which is why even with the defense crushing the pocket, he threw for 350 yards, in an offense he barely knows.
My concern with JJ is that he has no touch, and his accuracy is suspect.
Does he just need the game to slow down a bit or is it who he is? I am curious to see…
Seeing other QBs hold onto the ball too long in this offense makes me miss Darnold. I am happy for my Seahawk friends, though. I told them they would like Darnold after Wilson and Geno.
My concern with JJ is he played for Michigan – the best line in football, best running game and best defense. They beat Penn State, one of their most talented opponents, and he didn’t throw ONE pass the entire second half.
That is worrisome, yes.
All QB’s like to throw the ball though JR. I was not a great passer, but I always wanted to call pass plays. McCarthy has a strong arm for sure. He can drill it into tight coverage. He does have to work on varying his trajectory on different throws to different levels. Reportedly he did work on that all offseason. But like a golf swing, you work on a change, then on the course, you revert to your old, ingrained swing and the new swing fades quickly. McCarthy is two years from “getting it” in the NFL. He is a talented young man, but like all young QB’s he has a long way to go.
Just meant experience counts, a lot sometimes. A QB like Bo Nix who threw the ball 20 times a half is probably a little farther along the learning curve in my opinion.
I considered Nix the most NFL ready QB in the draft two years ago. I saw him doing things I didn’t see other college QB’s doing. Things that pro QB’s do. He definitely understood tiered reads and progressions for instance, and threw the ball before receivers made their breaks based on the defensive alignment. I liked his brain. I think he surprised some teams last year with his ability to do that. This year, teams are working a little harder to disguise coverages and complicate his reads. Teams are making him work a lot harder this year. I expect he’ll continue to progress though, and make throws that keep his team in games.
I like Nix’s moxie.
I agree. At this point my floor is 4-13, ceiling 10-7. Got a ruthless string of OL injuries, defense struggling to stop the run, stupid penalties.
Key is to play McCarthy as much as possible, if he can’t cut the mustard put him on the Ponder pile and draft a QB first round next year.
I will stick with my prediction of 8-9 or 9-8.
KOC finds ways to win, even though he doesn’t change his game plan much.
FTFY
WentzGinger Kirk performed admirably, especiallyconsidering the situations he faced.when the other team was leading by multiple scores in the 4th and switched to conservative defense.You think that pass rush got “conservative”? If anything without the threat of run, they came harder.
The defense didn’t get conservative at all. They came after Wentz all day long. They didn’t play prevent on a single snap.
Doesn’t have to be prevent to be conservative. Every pass he completed on the first TD drive was a short throw because they were letting him have that with a 3 score lead.
Ummmm that’s a prevent defense. When your safeties play deep, and you allow underneath throws. The Steelers consistently had 8 guys in the box, and played press man. They forced the short throws with pressure, not coverage.
Having not seen any of the game, and just watching the score, that’s what I figured.
Down 24-6 late in the game and they get two scores.
Figured Pitt was allowing the short and underneath stuff to protect the big play.
That’s what typically happens in the NFL.
They played a pressure defense the whole game. There was no prevent defense at all.
This is the long throw to Addison with the blown coverage. The middle linebacker is almost as deep as the safeties when the ball is thrown. Hock is 5 yards down field with nobody within 5 yards of him. But Pitt definitely didn’t play prevent at all.
You show one example of something as if that was the whole game, and you conveniently didn’t show the pre-snap alignment, or formation. The Vikings went to a spread formation on this play with 5 receivers out, forcing the Steelers to invest 7 guys in coverage. Duh…
You mean this pre snap alignment with a running back in the backfield and 8 steelers within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage then 4 turn and burn at the snap?
Picture file too big to post. Oops. Haha.
There it is.
Exactly… this is NOT a prevent defense look. At all. It’s a high pressure look, trying to get Wentz to throw short.
I’m pretty sure on this play Mason worked through the initial block, and went to the flat. Might be confusing plays though.
The bottom line is you proved my point. Pre-snap the Steelers showed the exact same front they showed all game for the most part. That’s an 8 man front. Eight guys within four yards of the line of scrimmage. NOT a prevent look at all.
Only 7 guys in the box and 3 of those at least 4 yards off the ball. Normal nickel look. The 8th is an outside corner over Jefferson.
You keep changing the definition of prevent. First it was just playing coverage that gives up short easy throws, now it has to do with presnap alignment.
I don’t see a high pressure look here. Linebackers definitely not showing pressure, only 4 guys on the LOS, nickel corner doing a poor job of looking like he might bring pressure because his guy is lined up tight (Something even i did in high school just to mess with the QB.)
All that aside, they still played an extremely soft 3 deep coverage with no blitz giving up easy short throws, which you said was prevent above.
The nickel and outside corner both took “short” (both still 8 yards deep) leaving a deep third wide open.
Ummm there are 8 guys within four yards of the line of scrimmage and the CB is in press man. This is the definition of a pressure front. I can’t explain it any clearer.
There’s also a corner 8 yards off the line, does that also show pressure? You say 8 man front like they’re all on the line showing blitz. They’re doubling Jefferson, that’s why that corner is pressing.
It could… haven’t you ever seen that guy come? Every single guy within 4 yards of the line of scrimmage can rush.
I’m having fun with this but I have to get some work done. What started as a bit of a troll comment turned into a fun discussion. Things look to be getting heated above so i fear it would lead to a downward trend in our discussion anyway. We’ll do it again sometime. And in case I don’t see ya….
Buh bye
That’s OK… the point is correct. The Steelers showed pressure, then fell back into coverage, and expected Wentz to hurry his throw and hit someone underneath. They blew the coverage on Addison, and Wentz didn’t panic though.
This isn’t a prevent defense at all.
Yeah, that’s what I thought happened.
Thanks Derby.
They’re rushing four, and dropping 7 into coverage, because we have 5 receivers out.
Mason stays in to block. Only 4 receivers out.
Anyone wanna bet $100 KOC still dials up long-developing routes against Myles Garrett with a beat-up OL?
Me on my way to the betting window:
I didn’t know you were that short.
It’s a valid point. Our quick game is pretty much non existent. Getting the ball out seems to take a long time. In training camp, we do see the quick throws being practiced, but in games they just don’t occur.
Think DC’s have a play in this. If you know your pass rush is getting home fairly quickly, you have DB’s play tighter and sit on shorter routes knowing there sone’t be time for deeper stuff.
This is true, but if someone is playing press man, there are ways to get in front of a defender quickly, for a short quick throw, or over them with with a high toss. It takes a lot of practice, to get that high outside toss perfected, but it’s gonna be there.
Do you think JJ and JA are good candidates to run a lot of quick slants? I think they are too small and will get pounded on those type of routes.
I have come to the conclusion that KOC refuses to run slants, because your receiver is gonna get hit by a linebacker on those plays. I think he avoids that on purpose.
You throw to where the blitz is coming from.
True. Was thinking of when they are only bringing four and still get home.
Yeah, that’s when you know you’re owning them on defense.
Not anymore. That used to be the play in the past, but defenses evolve. When you bring a guy, you drop another guy into his coverage. Throwing into the blitz now often results in big hits on a receiver, or an interception.
But now you’re talking about not bringing an extra guy on the blitz. If extra players are rushing the passer, it leaves someone open somewhere, usually where the pressure is coming from.
FTP and FTC ending in a tie was about as good as it gets, both can’t lose but at least nobody gets a W
O’Neill and Kelly injury info
Kelly should probably retire. His brain is taking way too much jostling.
I don’t know the protocol for repetitive concussions but would assume at this point we are looking at several weeks on the injury list.
So the prognosis is either bad or very bad.
I guess we hope for ‘bad’ aka sprain.
Yes
PS I’m sure one of the complications is that there would not be immediate access to a knee MRI in the UK healthcare system. I bet O’Neill caught a late flight back stateside.
Really Really good point….but that is where this country is heading….Nationalized health care for all guarantees shortages and wait times…Folks just don’t understand that.
So…Myles Garrett for 5 sacks on Sunday?
Per game, per half or per quarter?
I’ll take the over.
Yes
Good morning, SKOL!
FTP!
FTP Auto Rec.