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Week 17 officially starts this evening with the Browns and the Jets. I’d expect an ugly game but ugly football is better than no football
Minnesota Vikings Discussion Topic of the Day
How optimistic are you the Vikings have the right leadership in place for the long term?
Minnesota Vikings News:
Jared Allen is among the 15 finalists for induction to the HOF this cycle.
Vikings Lions Week 16 rehash
Vikings Lions through the lens
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Anyone over 40 and wear shit like this?
I got a pair for Christmas. They are short. On purpose. Also kinda tight, but I have spent many years in a squat rack so at least I got some leg definition.
I think they are just capris for men.
https://www.gymshark.com/products/gymshark-crest-joggers-black-ss22
If/when the Bronco’s release Russell Wilson after this year (it seems a lock at the moment), they will be on the hook to pay his salary for the next 2 years, to the tune of some $85M. Thus his next team will be able to pay him the vet minimum of $1.2M for 2024.
I could see a lot of teams (including the Vikings) vying for his services at that cost.
He was having a decent year, but I still think he is washed…much of his game is predicated on his ability to be exceptionally mobile…at 35 he has lost a good deal of that.
Contrast that with a pocket passer like KC – age isn’t as big of a factor…it will get him eventually, but I am guessing he has two good years left.
Honestly, I think Cousins has 5 good seasons left in him… but that is just my personal perspective.
He very well might. But as I have said before, when the age cliff hits, it hits in a hurry.
Hit me at 67 pretty hard. But I did bounce back after about a year of “general repairs”.
Love it…general repairs….you have to dust yourself off and try to get back on track physically when shit goes down hill.
As that fishy said “Keep Swimming, just keep swimming” actually that is great advice.
Good for you!
Didn’t hit Tom Brady much. In his last three years he threw for 14,643 yards and 108 TD’s. The most over a three year span in his entire career.
I know, but Tom Brady is a unicorn.
Nolan Ryan, unicorn.
You just don’t find mythical creatures like that very often.
Cousins has taken great care of his body though. Meticulous one might say. I think he can play to age 44 actually.
He’s not signing for the vet minimum and a fair amount of that 85 mil has already been paid in the form of bonus. The broncos could probably trade him for something as well.
Well that isn’t what I read… you may be right… might be smarter than the pundit.
No to Wilson please. Washed, and a giant douche.
I am so sick right now…can barely…type…
If this is it…I want Benjamin to have my Creature From The Black Lagoon action figure.
So noted…
What is the source??
😂
Skolholics virus going around? Should i get vaccinated?
You still have to finish the Bond series! Hang in there!
This qb crap where’s on me. I saw a suggestion that Minshew be ok fit. I’m sure cheaper than KC for sure. Don’t know if he’s under contract and facilitate a trade.
You will never see Cousins play another snap for the Vikings… all is well.
He may offer something more friendly to not uproot family, not sure. I won’t come cheap, any competent qb doesn’t. League wide pain in the GD ASS when trying to field a SB contender. What good is a cap if KC and JJ want a combined 75 mil?
Yep, the cap is there to level the playing field and reinforce parity. Teams need to decide how they will share the riches amongst their players, and there is an obvious limit to how much you can invest in any one player. The thing is that the longer a player remains in the league, and plays well, the higher their price tag goes, until eventually they actually price themselves out of the market.
This is certainly not my thing – the cap. But I hear comments like this daily from the “know everything” analysts on the daily shows.
goes like this – teams are in cap trouble, salaries get restructured, money gets moved around, the yearly cap goes up and it all gets worked out.
I don’t know if this is true, but some teams, like the Cowboys seem to have their fair share of hjigh priced guys.
Oh, and the analysts say these teams just keep kicking the can down the road.
Well I can tell you the Saints are currently $87,232,182 over the cap for 2024. That’s a lot money to be moved around to pay everyone.
$87M+ in the hole.
and I’ll bet you the Saints get it worked out.with all this restructuring, different bonuses and kicking the can stuff.
Well actually, they have to. They will have to get rid of a ton of players I think… maybe not.
You can find the current 2024 cap status for every team (in order of best to worst) here:
https://nfltraderumors.co/nfl-cap-space-1/
The defer crap, restructure shit, gets confusing. All i know is a competitive team.
Damn right – competitive team. Do what they need to do. The Cowboys seem to have figured it out. they have expensive line, high priced QB and WR and a talented defense.
Be careful what you wish for…
I wouldn’t count the chickens just yet.
I’ve been counting them for quite a while.
In case I’m wrong though (I’m not) I’ll take my crow deep fried.
Let me ask you something – or a thought .
What is our identity? You know like the Steelers, Niners Ravens, Eagles. I would maintain our is passing the ball – down the field.
Now, a baseball thought. If you’re going to get a pitching staff that are off speed, control types, you better plan to put a good fielding infield out there. Otherwise a waste of pitchjng talent.
Look at us – JJ, JA, Hock, the entire WR group. Given our identity and team strength, why would you field a team out there without a competent QB to get the ball delivered? I’m not talking about half assed, weak armed guys. I think it would be criminal to put a team on the field without a good QB. If not the one we shouldn’t name, at least one as good.
Yes. We would be squandering this team without a QB who is an accomplished thrower of the FB.
I know you didn’t ask my opinion but I gave it anyway…I’m like that sometimes.
No, it’s welcome. You perhaps said it better – squandering talent. The NFL stands for not for long.
Hope your travels are going well.
so far so good
Your input is always welcome NoDak.
Because KAM isn’t going to have a player on the team he can’t get rid of any time he wants. Right now he can’t trade Cousins, and he’s handcuffed. When Cousins walks next year, the Vikings get nothing in return except his $28.5M cap hit.
KAM will find a replacement player to spend under center next year. He may opt to try and go all in to get one of the rookies the pundits are drooling over this year, or he may play the “I’m smarter than everyone else” game and draft a QB in round 2 that has potential.
Ryan Tannehill is available cheap, and now, so is Russell Wilson.
KAM will work something… I just don’t know what.
My old man thoughts on cheap.
I’ve come to firmly believe you get what you pay for – cheap gets you cheap.
At age 57 my new philosophy is “Life is too short for cheap Whiskey”
Yes you get what you pay for.
I agree, but they didn’t hire me to be the GM of the Vikings…
There’s a reason they don’t let the bean counters run the business.
You’ll find this funny JR, there was a time not too long ago where I was considering applying for the Minister of Defence job for Belize.
Wow!!! Amazing.
I tend to agree…
Kirk is better, but Gardner is a quality QB who had led his team squarely into the playoff race this season
I’d like the Vikings to sign Gardner, he sure is competent enough to run Kumbaya Kev’s offense. Cool dude too.
For a stop gap 1-2 year deal he would be fine. If you want the rookie to sit that is. Again, any vet we bring in should be for a cheaper, short deal, not a long term solution.
Yep, not sure if he’s a FA, that would help. Still think draft a QB, depending on seed. Usually trading up is tough unless Mahomes. We have other needs, for sure.
Minshew is a free agent in 2024 and his current market value is $5.2M a year.
Here is where you can find a list of every free agent QB for 2024 and their contract values:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/?ref=trending-pages
I’d certainly consider, not sure what his asking price would be, QB’s are on a different planet than me.
According to the site, his asking price would max out at $5.2M but who knows? If more than one team wants him, that price could go up.
Exactly, i’m sure demands beat that price.
Jets@Browns? Sounds like a yawner. All these +/subscribe NFL channels can shove it. At least show something i’d be remotely interested in.
Watch online for free.
Was a good game on paper 5 months ago.
The Rodgers hype train that derailed before it made it out of the station. I laughed so hard when he went down.
I did some prop bets on Underdog, not sure if I will have time to catch game or not.
Happy Hall-idays.
Rewatching the first season of Fargo. Forgot how good it is.
Billy Bob might be the greatest actor of his generation.
I tried watching the newest season, but it’s so bad I quit like one episode in
Yup. I get it. Just started season 2 – which I’ve seen and liked (took place in Luverne, MN) I couldn’t get into season 3 and stopped watching. Curious about the season with Chris Rock.
I have only seen him in The Alamo (2004) and I wasn’t that impressed.
I see he was in Tombstone (1993) and Armageddon (1998) but I don’t remember him in those, perhaps they were a bit parts.
Played Johnny Tyler in that – the Pharoah dealer that Wyatt Earp runs off. Comes back with a shotgun to get revenge and is interrupted by Doc Holliday.
I’d recommend Monsters Ball – great movie.
Sling Blade, Goliath (1st season) are really good. The remake of Bad News Bears is also good imo.
Really like Billy Bob as well. He’s the king of being a sarcastic prick and I love it.
Feel sorry for Wonnum. Free Agent. Thought i saw it may be career threatening. Maybe i dreamt it. Glad Hall gets a shot, team is decimated. D and O line taking hits.
The Wonnum injury sucks. Thought he played pretty well – especially during the stretch of wins after going 1-4.
Good, I look forward to watching the highlights Monday morning
Won’t watch the game? Or you tending bar?
Tending of the bars 7-1am. Then clean up, wont get out of the building until 3amish maybe later
Gotta be a big $$ night though.
I hope so. Last year it was, but so far this winter has been slower in general, tipping as been meh to ok. I hoping after the holidays and end of year pay raises people have extra spending / tip money.
I have a couple small 4-plex buildings here in Lincoln that own. All 2 bedroom apts – inherited them when my mom died. Majority of my tenants are bartenders or work in food service and rely on tips to pay bills. Hope it’s a lucrative holiday, for them and you.
Thank you sir, I only do it as a side job but I work with numerous full timers so I appreciate the sentiment.
People should drink less if they can’t afford to tip appropriately for good service. Hate cheap ass people.
Agreed. Worst ones are freshly 21 year olds, tipping $1 or less on a $10 – $13 cocktail. If you cant afford to tip then dont drink expensive cocktails. Our bar upstairs has the cheap stuff and beer, tipping $1 for a Coors is fine. But not for a high priced bourbon old fashioned or whisky sour.
And I’d add from what I’ve seen this group is not exactly kind and thoughtful to waite staff or cashiers.
tipping in general is getting watered down because every single business with a card pad now asks if you want to tip and people are getting overwhelmed.
This is true. And it’s gotten out of hand.
Yeah..like fuckin subway…come on man
Costs more, service and food is worsening. IMO. I rarely takeout anymore.
Same, can’t watch because of party. Hope Hall can run the offense, and we only lose by ten.
Source?
Lol….
Finally KOC listened to the right people on here.
#grinning
Do you have a link?
This guy calling out Rogers is funny.
That was funny. And accurate.
Bears fans think they can get a top 10 first round pick for fields.
Also draft Bens homie Caleb.
Then trade the other 1st rounder they got for multiple first rounders.
Big plans.
A top 10 1st rounder feels like a stretch for Fields. I could see someone giving up a mid to late 1st rounder, but even that feels like overpaying for a guy who has a clear problem reading coverages and finding the open guy.
I doubt they get more than a second for him.
But I’ve no idea what others might value Fields.
I doubt they’d get a first four fields
Dak, gonna get PAID.
Vikings need to draft a QB.
Wow. 55-60 million per….
They will lose in round #1 or #2.
He is the black Kirk Cousins.
He could be the green Joe Namath for all I care…. That’s a shitload of money.
He moves much better in the pocket and also can scramble to extend plays. He looks to throw while scrambling, and also will run if it is there.
He is playing much better than our injured QB was, even with the gaudy stats.
Save for last week’s game and a couple of others, go back and watch film of him when he’s playing from behind. Athletic for sure, but also a lot of gopher balls and throws to the wrong team.
It would be wild around here if we traded up and grabbed one of the premier QBs in the draft.
Imagine no Kirk arguments.
Everyone in love with our nice, shiny, new QB.
Then imagine the chaos if we get the Trubisky over the Mahomes.
Either way, I want to roll the dice and go for it.
Don’t see it. I guarantee there are KC fans that are not happy with Patrick’s performance…often.
Ergo Vikings fans will be milquetoast about our QB play, especially after a bad statistical outing. I have no doubt MN will win the SB one day, next season we’ll be griping about who we drafted, free agent signings, turnovers, crap OL play, etc…
I will be happy with whatever Starting QB we end up with.
As long as he wins every game.
I promise.
Ok, upon further review.
If Caleb was wearing a dress and playing QB I would complain.
If he was winning every game while doing so I would deal with it but still complain.
Unlikely to happen. NFL has strict uniform rules. Dress will have to be pre-game attire.
I could see the NFL making an exception in the name of Inclusion for Caleb’s dress.
Here here!
I’m sure some people will find something to bitch about regardless
Ben. You’re a fountain of wisdom today.
Are you still near death?
Moving further away
Glad to hear. Didn’t sound great. Assumed you were close to better as you’ve been posting.
Of course. That’s what we are here for.
Answer to question of the day…KOC good. KAM bad.
Uncharacteristically brief MT.
I’m getting murdered by coverage (or lack thereof) issues. I should clarify work related coverage not football secondary coverage.
Well, seems appropriate as you’re a vikes fan.
Hang tough.
I’m neither optimistic nor pessimistic about the long term for the Vikings. It’s a 3 to 5 year deal to make that call. They got rid of most of the bloated contracts.
Speaking of bloated contracts, wonder what they’ll do with Smith next offseason when his cap his spikes to like 20 mil again. Continue to kick the can?
Yeah, not sure how that works.
Smith earned a higher salary for one year anyway. Not sure how long he lasts physically at his age.
My take on above and if I were GM how I’d approach: Can the team contend for the Owl IF we re-sign Hunter, retain Flo add a piece or 2 on O line and 12 CB’s either and another edge through the draft or UFA. I think so, if the pieces fall together IMO have to re-sign #8 but only 2 yrs, period.
Maybe KOC has his eyes on a 2nd tier qb that he believes can run the O and they let #8 walk.
This off season, IMO, will determine the trajectory of the team for next 2-3 yrs. Maybe more. Does KAM and KOC have what it takes. IMO 60/40 against, not sold on KAM
That’s a lot of roster spots for the CB position
Hold over from Zim years. It was sarcasm
LOL
This is funny. Packer reporter kept asking and Laqueef did not want to answer.
What a pansy, if you’re going to start with the, “I’m only talking about the Vikings” stick with it.
Wes Phillips take on Hall.
Long winded answer to say, we think he can do it, but we’re not sure.
Correct
Ah, the old self-licking ice cream cone of “We’d like to play him, but he doesn’t have the experience.”
I wonder how they plan to get him some experience then.
LOL, for some reason that pussy Krammer blocked me.
What?
That’s funny.
No idea, I’ve never really done anything to troll legit reporters so I’m not sure
Am I optimistic the Vikings have the right leadership for the long term?
Not really, but I think the next season will answer the question. If they don’t nail the draft and follow that with another so-so season, toss them.
Magic should be happening by year three.
1st year head coach and 1st time GM you expect some learning curve.
Not to mention Slick and Zim left them some issues to resolve.
I would give them a full 5yrs.
5 years? Perhaps, but think you need to see substantial improvement long before that.
Like being in NFCCG?
I’m clearly in the minority here with this opinion but believe we could have gotten there this year if. not for all the injuries. Defense and oline are better and several of the other NFC teams have dropped off some.
I believe had a good chance w/o injuries and TO’s
Yup.
Could even go a bit further and say all those TOs are a result of just one injury.
Agreed.
We saw ‘substantial improvement’ last year, not just on the field but with the jettisoning of large underperforming contracts.
This year the team is still fighting despite all of the injuries, but hard to tell much about ‘substantial improvement’.
I would hope/expect signs of improvement every year in the roster, the cap situation and on the field.
I like the 3 criteria you mention.
Thank you.
I do manage to occasionally, accidentally say something smart.
“I’ll try not to let it go to my head”.
Fezzik
Princess Bride
lol….
Agree.
Let them draft their QB in 2024.
See what they can put together for a team in the next 3 seasons.
Reassess then.
I do not expect a “learning curve” when hiring one of 32 positions in the world. No sir. Those positions are the rarest of rare, and you don’t give them to people who have a lot of learning to do.
So does that standard also apply to QBs?
So any QB we take/draft should be up and running day one because ‘there are only 32 positions’ and ‘are the rarest of rare’??
Indeed… that is correct. The QB is the leader, the Captain of the ship, the player most counted on to do his job well, while also knowing everyone else’s job. If you want to compete, you need that guy who can do the job at the highest level. If you start a rookie, they are never going to be at their highest level just starting out. Agree?
Not sure if you are being tongue in cheek or not.
Everyone is/should be a ‘work in progress’.
KAM shit the bed on his first draft, was saved during his 2nd by not being able to trade the 1st round pick and having to select Addison. Will he learn and get better?? I certain hope so since he will continue to run our draft for the next few years.
KOC has had issues outsmarting himself with his play calling, his keeping his starters in too long (Dobby/Mattison) and I pray he improves there.
Few if any rookies start out well, some are best left to marinade on the bench for awhile while ‘doing’ is the best teaching tool for others.
So ‘learning curve’ is a real thing even for ‘the rare of the rare’.
I wasn’t being tongue in cheek, rather putting forth a principled method of hiring GM’s and HC’s (never hire a boy to do a man’s job) and then transferring that same principle to the QB. I have hired many dozens of senior leaders in my career. The first question any hiring authority should ask themselves is “can this candidate do the job?”. It’s fundamental. It’s not whether they’re likable, or pleasant, or even relatively knowledgeable. Can they do what I need a senior leader to do? When you bring in someone to be literally at the top of your organization and run it, you don’t say “well he’ll figure it out”. No, you bring the guy in who knows what he’s doing, and is a wholly proven product.
It terms of the QB, you really don’t want to have to rely on a rookie to lead the team. He doesn’t know shit, and he’s going to make a lot of mistakes. It’s best to have someone come in and get their feet wet, learn their job, get some experience, then take the reins when they show some ability to do so. Rodgers sat behind Favre, Mahomes sat behind Smith, Brady sat behind Bledsoe.
I don’t believe having a ‘learning curve’ = not being able to do the job.
More like they will get better at the job as they get more experience.
I believe you can hire someone who can do the job and still expect them to get better at it in time, in fact ‘getting better at it’ should be required.
Not the top dog in the organization… that person needs to be the font of wisdom for all, not learning…
Everyone should continue to grow of course, and learn. But a learning curve implies they don’t know enough at the start to do the job with excellence.
I think you guys are both right. Based on some experience, you have to hire a guy that can do the job. At the same time, the best folks continue to learn until. the day they leave.
Oh I agree with NLNVF about hiring the best person for the job.
I don’t agree with him about “that person has to be ‘The Font Of Wisdom For All'”. Or that the person should have no room for growth.
I don’t believe he believes that either.
Is this plagiarism?
Now I’m curious
Is this going to become a thing?
If so I am in trouble. I have enough problems remembering ideas I read about without having to remember where I got said ideas.
I will cite a quote as I did with the Fezzik quote I did below but those will be few and far between.
Source?
The Fezzik quote was from The Princess Bride as I cited with my quote.
That might be the bestest citing you will seem me do on this site so enjoy it while you can.
It really too bad as most of the plagiarism posts are better than the original thinking.
Laughing… thanks BSF
I’ve landed in MSP.
lookout you filthy animals.
Clean up down town for them wont you? Id like to visit again.
Me to that mayor.
My favorite GIF of all time…
there’s a lot of thoughtful. posts on the question of the day. Not sure can add much, but some random thoughts.
Overall, like KOC as a coach but am worried some that GM is more a CFO than a CEO.
First year was 13-4 but mostly Rick’s team, so coaching must have done something. Lucky – to me, you either make the plays late or not and the team did.
The QB situation – believe KOC did take Kirk to the next level. Now, since the injury, I find the handling of the QB position a bit head scratching. – e.g. when to pull a starter.
This year is very hard to evaluate given the injuries. Just my opinion, but believe if Kirk hadn’t gotten hurt, and JJ here all season, we would be playing Detroit for the division last game of the season.
Now, a lot of folks say winning the division is not the goal – get to SB. True, but look at the NFC teams this year – Eagles? Dallas? Even the N iners. My thinking, win the division, be healthy and this is important – be playing well at the end of season.
I’d comment on the QB position going forward – but that’s a complete waste of time.
But going forward, we need to fix our defense, and develop a little bit of a running game.
So overall – KOC good, GM not sure.
Goooooose morning!
Not sure about the current Vikings leadership. KAM feels like he’s out of his depth as GM. I like KOC – but they’re a package deal. If one goes the other likely follows.
KOC still mum on QB1 this week. My thinking: Packers best corner is out on suspension, is now the time to start the rookie knowing Alexander isn’t playing/shadowing JJ? Hall starting the ATL game was the perfect storm – Cousins ded, Mullens bad back, Mannion just bad and Dobbs fresh off the plane, so they really had no choice but to start Hall. Now Mannion gone, Cousins still ded and Mullens/Dobbs are turnover machines. Will Mullens 4 picks and Dobbs inability to throw a 10 yard out be enough to convince KOC to start Hall this week?
Also complicating matters is Addison probably won’t play and Hock is gone, GB will just double JJ the whole game. Throwing Hall out there with limited weapons might not be the best decision, but I’d still do it.
I would too. I know Hock gone hurts, as does Addison not playing.
I’d just run a bunch of RPOs where Hall has minimal reads
I could see that. After 16 weeks of practice (albeit with minimal starting reps) I’d like to think he’s got a grasp of the playbook by now. Making the playoffs is a cherry at this point – likely not doing much if we get in. That said, why not run out Hall and see if he can run the offense (tailored a bit to his skill set obviously) as it’s designed? Maybe he takes off, plays well and we have something to work with next year. If he shits the bed, which is likely, the Vikings are still in the same spot at QB next year and can implement whatever ‘plan’ for QB1 going forward.
One small problem as I see it. If Hall is not ready and he goes out and shits the bed, that’s a career killer for him.
Its not a career killer by any means, most young QBs don’t play well their first significant action, especially rookies.
Agreed.
And Hall did not look unprepared in his one start this year.
Well, other than being unprepared to take on Defenders head on at the goal line.
I’ll say this for Hall, he didn’t look like a complete turd like Mond did the first time he got on the field.
accurate take.
Well, I thmik it depends on how bad the “shit the bed” is. Regardless, if the coach knows the player is not ready, he shouldn’t put him out there.
I don’t see it that way – he’s a rookie and an unheralded one at that. Nobody is expecting him to light it up. If he does, bonus. If he doesn’t, then he needs more development.
Powell is turning into a sneaky good WR.
KJ “handsofstone” Osborn should be sliding down the depth chart another notch. Anyone got a case of Stick’um to stash in his locker?
the new leadership is alright.
they are working through a rebuild right now.
Step 1 in a rebuild is letting the old timers go.
Thielen, cook, Kendricks, twc are out.
Step 2 identify core players.
JJ
Hock
Darrisaw
Etc to build around and sign them.
I suppose whether you call it a competitive rebuild or a full rebuild is all determined by what happens with Kirk.
No matter what you think of Kirk, he’s 36 next August. You need his replacement on the team by the start of next year IMO. Kirk may have 2-3 good years left, or he could rapidly decline. You never know.
I also think you need to take into account the fact that JJ wants Kirk back. I know there’s a very vocal group that absolutely hates Kirk. JJ doesn’t hate him and wants him back. That’s just a simple fact and any front office needs to factor that into the equation.
It doesn’t mean you have to bring him back, just that if you don’t you need to make JJ feel like you are making the correct move. Handling this properly is important. You don’t want to piss off your young star.
So you need a QB.
Unless you are drafting in the top 3, very, very few rookie QBs are ready to start, and even then it’s more luck than skill if you’ll get the right one.
Maybe you get lucky.
So your options are
1. Shell out picks to get into the top 3 and hope you get a guy who’s ready to go. Also get a bridge QB like a garden minshew as a back up plan. You don’t want to start the guy if he’s not ready.
2. Draft lower. Resign Kirk to 1-2 years and slowly develop your guy.
I don’t think they’ll dump out a boatload of picks to move up into the top 3.
I could see them making a move for their first and next years second to move up a few spots to grab what they believe is their guy.
Most likely scenario, they grab a McCarthy type and resign Kirk to 1-2 years.
Personally, I like to see them make a move for a guy like Drake maye if he falls out of the top 5 picks.
Only problem is is Kirk doesnt want a short term, team friendly contract, so thats where that part of your scenario falls apart, hes going to want 3+ guaranteed and big $$$ and no trade clause again and its going to fuck the Vikes up for another half a decade. You CAN NOT do that if you are KAM. Period. It should be career suicide.
Point taken, but is Kirk really in the position to make demands?
Cons: Age. Recent injury. 1-dimensional. Expensive.
Pros: Good arm when given time. Protects the ball better than anyone else currently designated as QB.
I can see them biting the bullet and moving on from him.
No, he’s not but thats never stopped him or his agent before. Theres things the Vikings and Kirk SHOULD do, and then theres things they WANT and the odds of those two things lining up and both parties agreeing are slim going off past history. Kirk could swing his age and injury into “See how bad you were with out me?” even though thats a shitty argument because 90% of NFL teams are worse with their back ups, thats why they are back ups.
Let’s say Caleb is off the board and we trade up.
Who is your guy?
Caleb Williams would be off my board period. He’s a crybaby momma’s boy prima donna pussy who is like one step from being a tranny.
‘one step from being a tranny.’
But we could make history as the first team to have a female-ish QB.
Draft him, the NFL may just hand us the SB.
Would we have to pay for his Transition Surgery? Is that covered by the players associations agreement with the league??
I’ll take that. Just one…
If he/she gets the Vikings a SB it’s all irrelevant
B, tell us how you really feel.
Ben. By far the best post of the day!
Might fit in well with kumbaya Kev and the prima Donnas does have a nice ring to it.
So Ben likes Caleb.
I like Maye.
I Kinda/sorta like Nix.
Not a big penix fan….I probably should re-word this.
I’m not a huge penix or nix fan, they’re both system QBs who weren’t good in pro style offenses before transferring
Maye or McCarthy
Literally any of the top 5 QB prospects. Idk, take a chance on one, if he aint it in 3 years, prepare for the next draft. Repeat until we get it right.
Any FO who makes their decisions based on the “wants” of one player is damned to failure, especially when that player isn’t a QB.
You ignored everything after that:
It doesn’t mean you have to bring him back, just that if you don’t you need to make JJ feel like you are making the correct move.
You completely ignored the part where I said you don’t have to bring him back.
I wanted to point out that fucking this up has a lot bigger team dynamics than just the lost draft picks.
Star players are touchy. Mess this up and you will lose JJ.
Lose JJ and you are one step away from losing the locker room.
Downplay this all you want. But if you don’t handle this correctly, your career could easily come crashing down.
Yeah, I’m not worrying about what JJ wants, if he has an issue he can easily be traded. The only thing I’d worry about is finding the right QB, because JJ is far less relevant than that.
This, good QBs elevate their WRs. I think we have the opposite going on with Kirko.
Justin Jefferson: “I really think it goes to show the rest of the world the type of player Kirk is. At the end of the day, this is a tough league. … It’s tough not having 8 out there, the captain that he is, the leader that he is. He’s a great player.”
You keep copying and pasting the same PR quote that is nothing but fan fare. An original thought perhaps?
Justin Jefferson: “I really think it goes to show the rest of the world the type of player Kirk is. At the end of the day, this is a tough league. … It’s tough not having 8 out there, the captain that he is, the leader that he is. He’s a great player.”
Ah. The Zimmer and Rick approach.
Zimmer left and even his defensive guys like Kendricks described him as toxic.
That’s not what kumbaya Kev is building.
It’s what Harbaugh would most likely do, but also why he went back to Michigan.
You need to get in touch with your feelings.
I’m not saying you have to be toxic, but I’d be direct with JJ and tell him, hey I hear you about Kirk but we’re going to do what’s best for the team, and that shouldn’t be coming from Kumbaya Kev, it should be coming straight from Kwesi since he’s the one responsible for “building” the roster.
Well, that might be all that is required.
I only put that in there to head off the “but JJ wants Kirk back” argument.
Instead it triggered a completely different argument.
IMO: it should be fairly simple to get JJ hyped and sold on your new QB.
Yeah, especially if they trade up and draft Maye.
I like the tape on Maye.
Big, strong arm.
Might be another Locker type though. Had not thought of that guy until whoever mentioned him yesterday. ..but I remember back during draft time I liked him.
A guy like that has the potential to run our offense really well.
It doesn’t matter who JJ wants to be the QB though. In the end, KAM and KOC will put whomever they decide under center, and JJ will just have to deal with it. He could see the writing on the wall, and all his hopes and dreams of setting NFL records fading away, and demand a trade. That’s about it.
You know folks should go back and read some stuff on the 49er years with Harbaugh. Just from memory. he inherited a defense with four of the best LB’s on earth and their defense matched Seattle’s. Now, he got a lot out of Kaeperick for two years – but never beyond that. Then when things started to slide, he pissed everyone on the organization off – including the owners.
Yeah, he’s got a 4 year shelf life. And all those “great” players immediately got better when he took over and immediately got worse when he left.
I do believe two of those great LB’s had career ending injuries. And he certainly was an upgrade over Singletary as I remember.
Once he got back on the field he had plenty of targets didn’t he? Maybe he realizes now that it matters less who is QB1.
Justin Jefferson: “I really think it goes to show the rest of the world the type of player Kirk is. At the end of the day, this is a tough league. … It’s tough not having 8 out there, the captain that he is, the leader that he is. He’s a great player.”
Lol…. Were you expecting a star receiver to say anything else about his QB1 when talking to the national media? Did you think it would go like:
Justin Jefferson: ‘Kirk Cousins has a noodle arm and a needle dick, can’t grill a steak for shit and keeps a locked shed full of live bunnies in his backyard that he chokes out in a rage every Sunday morning before heading to the stadium….’
I have no doubt JJ loves Kirk. I also have no doubt JJ knows it’s a business and understands that eventually, maybe even next year it won’t be KC throwing him passes.
So now, to suit your narrative, you are calling JJ a liar? Nice work. Sorry this stands.
Justin Jefferson: “I really think it goes to show the rest of the world the type of player Kirk is. At the end of the day, this is a tough league. … It’s tough not having 8 out there, the captain that he is, the leader that he is. He’s a great player.”
I dont have a narrative NVF – and I didn’t call anyone a liar. Just pointed out JJ (or any other star WR) usually doesn’t bash their QB to the media – it’s a bad look for both the player and the team.
I also posted at the bottom that I had NO DOUBT JJ loves Kirk and also understands it’s a business.
I know you think you’re the end all/be all authority on all things football – but I just don’t see it that way. I appreciate your takes (when they’re obviously not cut & pasted from an actual authority and pawned off as your own idea) but those are incredibly rare.
grin
Well, what is wrong with providing data? Cutting and pasting information is somehow egregious to you? Come on man.
If people think I post information from other sources as my own, they have issues.
Not egregious at all – when you cite the source. Something you never did until it was called out this last summer.
Many times in the summer you’d post things that felt familiar, as if I’d read it before – I read too and often recognize a particular writer’s style and how they structure articles. ESPN, NFL, PFT, NBCSports, etc – I read them all. My suspicion was confirmed when I ‘reverse engineered’ one of your posts (copying and pasting into Google) and boom! Word for word what was posted on the original site is what you’d regurgitated here. Which is fine. Except often, before being called the ‘cut & paste’ king on here by me and others, you’d cut and paste EVERYTHING except the source. Sometimes it was ESPN. Sometimes it was a team website. Regardless, knowingly and willingly not listing the source suggest to me that you’d like others to believe it was YOUR original thought. This has changed in the last few months. You still copy and paste (again, that’s fine) but now you also add the source – something you didn’t do before being called out on it. The threads are there for anyone to read and search – I don’t have the time or inclination, but it happened. A lot.
Honestly, and respectfully, I don’t care if people somehow look down on me on a blog, for posting information without first saying “this is from this guy, in this article, on this site”.
If that somehow bugs other people, then that’s just the way it is. People insisting I must conduct myself as they demand, or believe as they believe, are going to be sorely disappointed with me, and somewhat continuously. Grin.
I personally enjoy your takes, sometimes I agree and other times not so much.
But they are reasonable and you explain the logic of them without resorting to being a ‘Keyboard Warrior’
As far as cut and paste, I have done it, usually put it in quotes but have not always cited the source. Prefer to paraphrase and post a link. Not sure what is more correct-er.
To be disappointed I’d have to expect something from you other than regurgitating someone else’s words and acting as is if they were yours.
I expect nothing from you. Or anyone else. And I’m never disappointed.
Its actually fun reading your posts, especially in the morning when you’ve clearly turned over a new sheet on your word-of-the-day toilet paper.
Just musings from a pillock, pay me no mind (as I’m sure you don’t, being in meetings with STRATCOM & NORAD all day)
Skol!
‘Word of the day toilet paper’ is a thing? I need to get me some of that.
I hear on site meetings at NORAD are better as they have ‘secret bar’ there.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/11/29/norad-secret-bar-investigation/71743151007/
You know I love your dog and I’m still sort of new at this – could never post and paste anything. But what is the point you are making here?
No point really JRob. Didn’t appreciate how my obviously facetious post about what JJ would say about KC was turned into me calling JJ a liar and somehow that fits a ‘narrative’ that I have. The end of that post also stated I had no doubt that JJ loved KC. The only ‘narrative’ that was created was by NVF.
Just didn’t understand all the posts without source stuff. Doesn’t really matter to me.
I’m sure it doesn’t. Honestly doesn’t matter to me. Unless someone is trying to make it seem like it was their own idea. Which he did. He can deny it, but he did until he was called out. Kills his credibility imo.
We’re just different I guess. I don’t mind people providing material whether it’s “original thinking” or not. Now, some of these statements that are made with 100% certitude that are merely opinions. that’s an other matter.
Agreed.
I have never posted anything from anywhere and inferred it was my original thought. That is a lie.
It’s not. You have. You don’t do it anymore but you did in the past. A lot.
You don’t get to have it both ways. You don’t get to sell yourself as intelligent and articulate with a vast vocabulary and knowledge of the game of football and then play dumb when called out for not citing sources.
Someone as detailed and regimented as you claim to be understands full well what they’re doing in this scenario.
You didn’t cite the source because you wanted people to believe the thought was yours. Then you got called out for it and stopped – I’m guessing because you realized it may kill your credibility, which it does.
You also probably thought it wouldn’t come up again, and it likely wouldn’t have. Except you insinuated that I had a narrative to fit and that I called JJ a ‘liar’ – all of this from a post that also said ‘I have no doubt that JJ loves Kirk’ which tells me you didn’t read it or blatantly ignored it in a rush to get to your keyboard for your ‘gotcha’ moment.
I have no beef with you NVF, I really don’t.
I have no further comment on the matter.
Skol
Poetic post. Thank you for calling it out. I dont have the patience to type what you type so I usually just go straight to shit talk which is how im now being known for. Which is fine. I tried being articulate and fair when it comes to arguments with this poster, and he showed a full year ago that that was impossible to sustain.
It is regrettable that you and NLV got into this dustup today given you are both insightful and thoughtful posters. And know real “football” stuff.
Actually the JJ stuff is kind of revealing, but I guess we can save such stuff for another day.
Is what it is. I’m moving on.
I have never posted anything someone else produced and claimed it was my original thought.
You’re talking to a brick wall at this point dude, its best to save your breath and typing. This is the shit I talk about when it comes to discussing Kirk and its why I rag on him on the daily. Its illogical.
Let’s not keep recycling old QBs.
Time to draft and develop.
Plus, KOC needs a young QB. The guy keeps trying to “coach up” career back ups.
Get him a new guy.
Otherwise, we should have just hired a different coach.
He’s trying to coach up career backups because that’s who he’s got right now. But I agree, draft a legit QB prospect.
I do think that the KOC/kam era will be determined by if they hit or miss on their Kirk replacement.
I think they know it too.
Plus, I think the owners picked KOC over Harbaugh in part because they saw him as a guy who would develop the qbotf.
So, whether or not this era of Viking history is a success or failure will be determined soon enough.
I’m not sure I understand this, Harbaugh did that in SF when he had Smith and was developing Kaepernick, he even made him look like a competent QB.
Supposed Harbaugh didn’t get the job because his approach wasn’t viewed as modern for young player development.
Everyone knew going forward that he could be difficult to work with.
Basically whether he got the job depended on if he could convince the wilfs that his coaching style was up to date on development of youth.
I’ll grab an article
Ummmm he’s coaching college players successfully at the moment. What more evidence his coaching style is up to date on development of youth do you need than that?
I know it sounds weird, but it was widely reported that they were questioning his ability to develop you talent. That’s not my opinion. And I think it’s a bad take.
I wanted Harbaugh, and said it multiple times here and everywhere.
During the interview, Harbaugh was going to have to “convince the Wilf family his approach is sufficiently modern in the midst of a youth movement,” Bacon wrote.
This plus the fact that he could be a dick was why he didn’t get the job.
https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/what-happened-vikings-jim-harbaugh-michigan-interview-difference-perception
I wanted Harbaugh too – knowing full well that he likely would piss everyone off and be a complete prick. But he also gets results.
Harbaugh would have been hype, I was all for it as well.
When people refuse to see the reality that Harbaugh is successfully developing college players, and question his ability work with young players, they have issues.
That’s ridiculous if true. He’s one of the best CFB coaches in the country and consistently develops NFL talent and has top 5 recruiting classes, if he was out of touch with the development of youth he wouldn’t be in that position, that’s seriously one of the stupidest fucking things I’ve ever heard and the Wilfs should be forced to sell the team.
Now, you could make the point that his personality and style are a better fit for college because by year 4 he’ll burn everyone out with his insane intensity then that makes perfect sense and if the Wilfs were looking more for a long term decision at HC I could at least understand that logic, he’s like 60 already and has a shelf life already. But to suggest he can’t develop youth is asinine.
Yep
Well, that was widely reported.
I made fun of it every chance I could.
I’ve made no secret I wanted Harbaugh as our coach.
I had not heard that, it just sounds so stupid. I was part of the Harby Army as well, though KOC was a good hire as well IMO.
I’m slowly coming around to koc.
Also,
I thought everyone remembered the whole KOC was supposedly better at developing young talent thing.
R4K would completely lose his shit every time someone brought that up.
He latched into that for weeks.
It was fun.
Was this right when the DN migration happened?
Trying to figure out why you missed this.
He generally does that no matter the subject
Harbaugh was a QB in the NFL for 14 years as well. A starter, not a back-up like KOC.
Agreed. Appears some important dude on the Vikings had some beef with Harbaugh, so they hired Kumbaya Kev instead. We’ll see if this will turn out to have been a wise decision…
But… didn’t they draft a QB this off season? So they already drafted a legit QB prospect, right? I mean, they knew they weren’t bringing Cousins back next year when they drafted Hall. He is your legit QB prospect. If he isn’t, why the hell did they draft him?
You can not be serious man, thats a new low for you if you think the Vikings drafted Hall to be their QB of the future, he was drafted to become a competent back up, those have value, now more than ever. Its his first year, he may be that, he may not. But he was never brought in to replace your nephew.
I think NVF was being facetious. Hall was drafted to come in and add depth, possibly developing into a starter someday but not anytime soon. He looks to me like he’ll develop into a backup.
No, they took a flyer on a 5 round guy.
Well then, what was the plan for the QBOTF? KAM was not bringing Cousins back in 2024. So you need to bring in the next guy that can develop behind Cousins and learn KOC’s system for a year. So 2023, you need to draft the 2024 QB. They drafted Hall.
You assume and pretend you know whats going on in the building. You dont. They wanted to see how Cousins did in year two BECASUE of his contract situation, how this year went was going to determine if they want him back at all. Hall was not the long term plan, ever.
They drafted Hall knowing they weren’t re-signing Cousins…
YOU DONT KNOW THAT!!! And it goes against EVERYTHING they’ve been doing the past two off seasons.
They drafted Hall knowing they weren’t re-signing Cousins…
They didn’t and still don’t have a QBOTF plan, they’re just plugging away with the “competitive” rebuild. It looks me like Kwesi has no plan other than restructuring Kirks contract last offseason.
KAM is not re-signing Cousins. I agree he has no plan, which was ultimately the point I was making. Grin.
Yeah we agree on that, though I do think its not entirely impossible they come to some agreement with Kirk, who knows though.
KAM totally rejected what was reported as a “below market offer” from Cousins. The problem is guaranteed money and the no trade clause. It boils down to KAM wanting to have control of the player and being able to cut him or trade him at any time, and Cousins saying, “yeah, not feeling that KAM”.
Right, we’ll see if they can meet somewhere in the middle.
After dealing with Bruce Allen, it’s clear to me Cousins won’t let a GM “own” him or mistreat him. Cousins position isn’t changing. I can’t see KAM changing his position either. Likely, KAM will offer Cousins a low ball contract to “show good faith” on his part (basically a PR move) but in the end, Cousins will walk away and find a new gig somewhere.
Cousins haters will further vilify him for not taking a “team friendly” deal of course.
Incorrect, Im going to throw a fucking party when he’s gone. I dont want him back, even on the cheap. Begone thot.
How is Cousins a “thot”? Weird choice of a noun.
Because he doesn’t know a thot is a woman of questionable moral character…i.e. a slut.
Because I do know that, and Cousins is a slut, for the Vikings salary cap. See how I brough that full circle? Quit with the Smartest man in the room crap, that might work after you skip over to the Pentagon its not working here.
Also im 90% sure you googled that before you typed your comment lol
Well, you’re 100% wrong… as usual.
Is a slut for the Vikings money.
Word on the street is RW is too dumb to run Buttholeyes’ offense.
Why in the world would we want him to try and run KOC’s offense?
I don’t, just posting the report
It has to start with Ownership. As far as GM and Coach, I am fine giving them 3 more years. After 5 seasons you should know if a championship is possible with this tandem.
Ownership may have wanted a competitive rebuild, but a complete tear down / rebuild would have given me more hope.
I like the coach (most days) even though I whine about the QBs he keeps playing that are not named Hall.
Kwesi has done some really good things, but also missed on some big decisions. Pretty sure that is normal.
This season sucks mostly because of turnovers and injuries.
I am not sure that even if healthy this team was talented enough to make a run.
They have had a few really great games (SF comes to mind, but they were depleted at that time).
So, I am cautiously optimistic still, until they re sign a QB I can only talk about on Tuesdays. When that happens, I will probably give up on the team and root for someone else until that player is gone.
Here’s my take Surly. First my current opinion of the GM and the HC is low. KAM got schooled badly in his first draft, and his second was singularly unimpressive as well. Folks say “give him a chance to develop” but that’s total bullshit. If you give someone one of 32 positions in the NFL as a GM, that person better be fully prepared and ready to take the controls and fly the plane on day one. They better have a plan, and the skills to execute that plan, when they are hired. KAM is not a very good deal maker or horse trader, as is clearly evident in his actions to date. Neither is his ability to pick talent very good. Selecting Cine over Kyle Hamilton was insanely stupid. WTF?
As to your concerns about Cousins being re-signed, I have two comments. First, Cousins will not be re-signed, and second, when he leaves, the team will be worse, not better. Just ask Washington about the 12 QB’s they have started under center since they let Cousins walk. We have already started three QB’s in Cousins absence this year, in seven games. The Vikings (like Washington) likely are in line to start a long list of QB’s and lose a lot of games.
Others will have their own perspectives, but this is what I’m seeing.
To be fair, none of our 3 other starters were drafted/signed to be the starter and didn’t get to begin the off-season with that in mind like many of the 12 Washington QBs, therefore their expectations should be lower for our replacements.
I do agree, there is very good potential for things to get worse before they get better if we move on from Cousins.
Yes, and that also doesn’t mean we won’t bring in a guy eventually that can be really good for us under center. I just think when you believe getting rid of the most consistently productive QB in the history of the team, will somehow make you better, you’re missing wide right.
I am cautiously optimistic. Kwesi’s first draft definitely still looks like a turd overall when taking into account the terrible value he got in the trade with Detroit, and the fact he passed on Kyle Hamilton, who looks like Harrison Smith 2.0 at this point in his career, he’s got 3 sacks and 4 picks so far this season, including a pick six and is better than any safety on the Vikings roster. Instead Kwesi traded back, took Cine late in the 1st round, who has played 2 defensive snaps in his entire career and is currently 6th on the depth chart. The Vikings essentially took Booth and assmoar with the additional picks. They could have just stood pat and taken an already All Pro caliber Safety at #12 and still taken Ingram with their second round pick. Instead they traded back turned the extra picks into 3 players who have made zero impact on the team and don’t look they will anytime soon in Cine, Booth, and Assmoah. As mentioned before, Cine is 6th on the depth chart, Booth has been hurt, played sparingly, and been wholly unimpressive when he has managed to get on the field, and despite being hyped up before last season, Assmoah got beat out by a UDFA and couldn’t even get on the field when Hicks got hurt. The only good pick from that draft seems to be Evans, who is at least an average CB taken in the 4th round. He pissed away a 5th rounder on Otowema, who I could have told you wasn’t an NFL talent having seen every snap he played at the U. The rest of the picks were meh, though Chandler looks to be a decent change of pace back at a minimum.
Then you look at the 2023 draft and Addison looks very good but there’s nothing beyond that. Blackmon has played most of the snaps as the 3rd CB but that looks mostly to be because the Booth and the other guy suck so bad. Its only been a season and while he hasn’t been a complete embarrassment he also hasn’t been impressive and is tiny. We’ll see on him. Then you have Ward, Roy, Hall, and Mcbride whose combined impact has been Ward screwing up on special teams and ultimately costing the team 4 points against the Bucs (Vikings lost by 3) and 3 points against the FTP, though they did win that game.
Free agency has been a mixed bag. Phillips and Hicks have been ok. Z Smith was really productive for half a season then Kwesi traded him for late round pick swaps. The rest 2022 were nobody of note mostly 2nd/3rd string players who didn’t get on the field.
2023 was not great either, but was buoyed by some good signings. Powell has turned out to be a good signing, he can actually catch punts and is a decent 4th/5th WR. Murphy has been ok, though far from a lockdown CB. UDFA Pace has been a good signing so far. I like Oliver but he was allegedly brought in to add beef to the run game, which is odd because the Vikings only run the ball 37% of the time, 4th least in the NFL, seems like a waste of money and his talents. Then you have Lowry and The Couch. 2 years and 8.5 million for a DT who is a nonfactor in the pass rush when you have 2 players that fit that description already was a waste of money, not to mention the fact that Lowry absolutely sucked ass and the run defense in particular has been better since he went on IR early in the season. Then there is Davenport. What can you really say? He was available because of durability and reports of inconsistent effort. He flashed in the two games he actually played but has missed the other 13 games and is apparently not motivated to play again this season. What a waste of 15 mil in or so in cap space and roster spot. Risner has been an ok signing.
Then there’s the trades. Hockenson is probably the biggest feather in Kwesi’s cap. Since coming to MN he’s been one of the two most productive TEs in the NFL. That year Kwesi also pissed away a 5th and 7th for Jalen Raegor, who couldn’t catch punts and caused interceptions because he quit on and can’t run routes. The rest of the trades that year amounted to nothing of note.
2023 trades were ok overall I guess. He got Dobbs for minimal value when they only had one healthy QB, not bad. I liked the Akers trade, unfortunate he got hurt. Then you get to the absolutely head scratching trade of your starting LG for a 6th round pick mid season. “Rumors” are Cleveland wasn’t going to re-sign because he wanted to play tackle. Fine, then trade him in the offseason when you can surely get more than a 6th round pick and sign Risner at that point, instead Kwesi gets absolutely trade raped in this baffling transaction. Its very likely the Vikings would have received better compensation letting him walk in the offseason and getting a comp pick.
I like KOC as a HC, overall he’s been a good game manager and decision maker, though he’s had a couple questionable calls this year. I like that he recognized a mistake and moved on quickly from Donatell and made a really good hire in Flores. I still think he needs to let the OC call the plays and just focus on being a HC.
Ultimately this regime will be defined by what they do at the QB position. The guys currently playing are nothing more than backups. Kirk gives them the ability to tread water and “competitively rebuild” but they’re not winning anything of substance with him and this roster. Its only two years in and year one they overachieved, year two looks like they are pretty much what it looked like they would be, a good not great team that right now is ravaged by injuries. IMO its pretty crazy they sit at 7-8 right now with the injuries they’ve had. KOC has done a good job keeping things from falling apart but now with Hock and Wonnum out for the year I don’t see them making the playoffs.
holy smokes, Mt Viking is this you!?!?!?1
That is an impressive wall of text, and I gotta say, I read it all
Well, he did mention one time he thought I was one of his wife’s children
Can’t be; MT’s posts never contain useful or pertinent information.
Also, I like Risner, he puts a lot of effort on the field and I like how he runs up and picks up the RB etc every play. Kinda like me, I like to help the little guy, f that I am more like Kylo Ren I heard you speak of me as indecisive in the break room now you shall DIE HAHAHAHAHA not really it just hurt my feelings.
That is a lucid and well thought out opinion.
Nice “My Cousins Vinny” reference.
This, very much. Rec
Good Morning. Ben posted a really hard question for today – too hard maybe. I’m going to have to go have another cup of coffee to think about it.
GM
FTP
SKOL!
Good morning, again. SKOL!
FTP!
love the media up top.
also first, suckers
First auto rec