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Vikings Discussion & Random Thoughts
Got tickets for this weekends game in July, looking forward to Burrow vs JJ. With JJ injured I get to go see Jake the Snake vs Carson Wentz and nobody should have to pay real money for that. For my FF team, I picked up Jake since I expect him to throw for 5 TDs this Sunday. Injuries piling up on both sides of the ball, and I expect this week to be as sloppy as the third preseason game. And, yes, I am still glad they let Sam and Kirk go away. This season is going to get out of hand quickly if they play like they did vs Atlanta, and the team could very well have a high draft pick to get wrong next spring. Having the early bye week is going to help this team. I hope they somehow find a way stay close in the standings until healthy.
NFL News
FTP!
Lots of teams dealing with injuries. Not just the purple have the injury curse going on.
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LOL. Ingraham brought up Walz running, said MN has to wake up.
So happy we saved the 1’s in preseason, so they’d be fresh and not dinged up to open the season.
Yeah, that was genius…
Probably the best line on this site in weeks.
Sorry… I just had to…
Dumbfuck? Or is that 2 words
No, if you don’t put a space in there its just one word…and accurate.
Lieingnogoodsonofabitch.
I use big words.
Not gonna lie… that made me laugh JR.
Turd
Ass-Hat??
cockwamble
Case Keenum is 3rd on the Bears depth chart. Maybe he should have been a guy we looked at?
“He’s a winner”
i almost said so is Colin Kaepernick but looked at his career wins/losses….
he went 1-10 his last year in the league IN 2016!!!!!! LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL
good thing he’s staying in football shape
Tampon running for gov, no term limit in this sad state. Guessing he still thinks he’s relevant and wants the platform to shoot off his loud, stupid mouth.
GOD help this country.
Hate to say it, but Minnesota is a shit state right now. Overrun with Muslims, liberal to the core, and going down the toilet.
Little Somalia. Largest in country. Wonder where a 18 billion surplus turned into a deficit.
Then there’s this…
LMAO. Guessed it would have been 80 out of 70. He’s concussed, right? Who plays there?
Eddie Murphy’s best role…
Well, well…
i’m shocked
To run? Behind what?
Aaron Jones has some kind of injury as well, I guess?
The Vikings are placing Jones on injured reserve with a hamstring injury.
This team is falling apart after 2 games 😅
Again? LOL
My thought exactly.
Been seeing a lot of uninformed (i.e. remarkably stupid) articles talking about Cousins trades to various teams after their starters went down (including us). The Falcons only have two QB’s on their roster. They have a 3rd guy on IR. If they trade Cousins, they only have one QB.
Idiot pundits have ruined sports journalism.
Go to FB for non-factual information.
HMMMMM…
He sucks, cut him
He can prob find his way to IR.
8 days ago i thought sky is the limit.
My tank is almost empty.
Many had high hopes for JJ. Looks like our boy wonder needs much more work than we expected. And the OL. Injuries suck though, we are getting hit hard with those (some other teams as well, granted).
No LT. Even if 67 plays. No Center. No good.
Oh where’s Ingram when we need him.
Hmmmm
The first team offense goes against the second team defense in practice though, and the first team defense goes against the second team offense.
Now that I think about it, the Falcons second team offense went up against their first team defense in preparation for Sunday’s game. Guess who led that offense that mimicked the Vikings plays for the week? Cousins. He was the best guy to prepare a defense to play the Vikings in the league.
LOL oh sweet, he’s great in practice.
sorry KOC but it’s kind of getting a little old now
It’s a schism!!
Tool auto rec
Ordered my #11 jersey! LFG!!!!!
LMAO.
I’ve heard they’ve sold out.
Well, they only made one so…
Clever boy… laughing.
Joe Kapp was freaking awesome !
Congrats !!
He absolutely was.
Rec for you.
The Coming of Carson is at hand!
Ew gross! But no kink shaming…
😂
Culpepper or Wilson?
i’m looking for ONE slant this upcoming game. give us just ONE slant route KOC
To date, the KOC scheme doesn’t feature slants much. Every offense has them in the playbook, but KOC just seems to eschew that play.
I read somewhere that JJ has had the longest time to throw metric so far this season. A slant would require a quick pass. Ergo, it will not happen.
Wasn’t it Atlanta a couple of years back that just rushed four and gave Kirk ample time to throw the ball which did not work in Atlanta’s favor? That will not happen anytime soon given how we have been gashed by any team that rushes five or more.
That time to throw metric is totally bogus IMO. It is literally the time from when the QB takes the snap, to when he throws the ball. If he is running for his life for 5 seconds before he throws the ball away, that is his time to throw. A better metric (if possible) would be time to throw without duress.
The time to throw metric can also reflect the offensive scheme, which I believe is the true culprit here.
Sam Darnold also took forever to throw, so as we’ve been saying it seems to be a result of these long crossing routes we run so flippin’ much.
True, a play action pass takes about 3 and half seconds to execute, but 2 seconds of that is the play action itself. So time to throw is extended by default.
He’s hurt. He’s not playing. There’s no secret conspiracy to bench him here.
Typical media overreaction, and drama.
i’d be curious to know if he didn’t play like ABSOLUTE TRASH on sunday, if that 2-4 week timetable shrinks to one week.
High ankle sprains can take 6 and even 8 weeks to heal up decently. It’s not something you can play through very well, either.
they weren’t talking about a conspiracy, Bruce Allen just said that he needs reps to get better and sitting and watching isn’t going to help, he needs practice and game reps
Why would Bruce Allen say that though? What was the context? McCarthy is out because he’s hurt. They’re not sitting him. He CAN’T get reps. They aren’t purposefully preventing him from getting reps.
It might be a “benching in disguise”, but we’ll never find out.
I personally don’t think so, but that is only my opinion.
BA was asked if missing a few weeks is good for McCarthy, BA said no, he needs reps to learn
Personally, and admittedly in retrospect, I would have targeted Thielen a lot more in the first two games. Thielen is a top shelf receiver and going to him more would have been smart. In the first game, he got one target. He got three in the last game. KOC didn’t use him effectively enough. He’s a guy, with the defense focusing on Jefferson, that could have given McCarthy a safe throw, on a lot of plays.
Well doesn’t the QB go thru his reads. JJ doubled and not open, and go to second read. And really right before snap, QB should have a feel for the coverage.
First, no first year QB in the NFL can read defenses, and route combinations define where the QB goes first, then second. Thielen clearly wasn’t targeted as the primary receiver much, if at all.
Second, I would think any experienced play caller in the NFL with a young QB, would give him route combinations and reads that would be very easy and instinctive. The post with the curl under for instance is an easy route combination to read and execute. If the linebacker is collapsing on the curl, hit the post window over him. There are many, many of these route combinations with not a lot of mental gymnastics. Just look for the safety alignment, and know your keys.
Then there are zero read throws, and one read throws that young guys can execute. Think RGIII in his rookie season. One read, and throw the ball away (which Griffin refused to do to protect his incompletion rate) or take off running. That’s what Kyle Shanahan put together for Griffin and it worked. It worked for Andy Reid and Mahomes too, to a large extent. Same with Kaepernick.
So yes, a QB needs to make reads, and select the right route to throw to, but not all reads and route combinations are created equal. Especially in KOC’s adaptive route passing scheme, that often features long developing plays.
Well, first when you reset the TE with motion and how the defense reacts give even a young QB an idea of type of coverage. First step back, what do the safties do. Then further reading.
Now you have pointed out one of our basic concepts that KOC loves and we have had huge success with – two receivers on right, one running a seem go and the inside a deep out. On the other side JJ running a 25 yard drag across the field. Fairly easy read for the QB watching the safties and our QB’s have hit big yardage plays to all three of the receivers in this route concept.
Yes, the deep crosser is a favorite, and it definitely ends up being a big play, if there is a solid pocket and the QB has visibility. The key on that play is where the safety goes, and if you can’t see the safety because of traffic in front of you, and/or pressure, you can’t throw that ball.
True, But I also think it takes QB “patience” in the pocket – no, feel some pressure and take off. Slide a round a bit, have seen Cousins, Mullens, Darnold all do this. And before that, Stafford did it too.
Now, your QB is going to take a big hit after waiting and throwing, but KOC says that is what he requires of his QB.
I agree, and all of the guys you named have the experience to be patient, move a little, and let the play develop.
‘We will rally around Carson Wentz…. and we will play good football…’
🔨🔨🔨
Nice…
Things I am looking for on Sunday.
Zavier Scott to continue his preseason form
Harrison Smith to return and provide a moral boost to the defense
Darrisaw would be nice as well.
I have in my own mind already written him off until week 4.
I heard the inside scoop is Darrisaw won’t play until after the bye week….yuck.
if that is truly the case, then the coaches/Front office SUCK and should have put him on IR
Then go with two TE sets and give the tackle help. Our receivers should still be good enought to get open.
The GINGER JESUS!!! I see a lot of doubt on this page regarding Wentz.
I think he will do just fine. Maybe even good.
Here is the average QBRs for selected QBs (only included seasons with > 100 attempts)
Wentz 55.3
Cousins 56.4
Darnold 45.3
Purdy 68.6
Goff 52.7
The point is there is no reason to assume Wentz is going to suck…not saying he will lead us to the promise land but I will be really surprised if he sucks.
There is a reason why he hasn’t been a starter for a few years…..
And played on six different teams the last six years
Which is an NFL record. No other QB has started a game for six different teams in six consecutive seasons.
I don’t know that much about the QBR algorithm, but I know it’s trying to measure impact, versus production. It’s looking to measure things they consider impactful. If a QB throws for over 300 yards, with two TD’s, he can still receive a relatively low QBR, because none of his plays were rated as significantly impactful.
But to his larger point, the guy is capable. In 2018 he was number three on the NFL’s top 100 players. You can’t be that high and be a dud. Last couple of years backup to Mahomes and Stafford.
Given the state of things, with our offensive weapons, if he just goes out and plays “competent” football, we can win games.
so we are taking measurables from SEVEN years ago??
Just pointing out he at least “had” talent at a very high level.
And if Reid and McVay felt he was good enough to be a capable backup for them, it works for me.
I am just pointing out there are no objective reasons to believe he will suck.
That fact that he hasn’t played much over the last 5 years doesn’t qualify as an objective reason?
The last 3 seasons he hasn’t played much…not 5….
Well… sort of… the top 100 players are voted on by players. It’s sort of a popularity contest, wrapped in an athletic endeavor comparison opinion poll. That said, in 2018 (his third year in the NFL) Wentz was athletically great. He only played in 11 games in 2018, but completed 69% of his passes for over 3,000 yards, and 21 TD’s vs 7 interceptions. He also attained the highest passer rating of his career that year (102.2), and folks saw him as a dominant QB. This was because in 2017, he threw for over 4,000 yards, and 33 TD’s against 7 interceptions, with a 101.9 passer rating.
These were his peak years though, and he eventually came back down to earth, as injuries piled up and his scrambling ability waned.
He made a lot of hay throwing on the run and improvising.
Does it really matter at this point? ( Just saying)
How would you rate the level of QB play we have had so far?
Can he play a little better than that?
Honestly, Wentz is a bit of a statistical anomaly. He is a classic improvisational athlete, who made remarkable plays early in his career. I believe some of his early success though was simply because he was on the Eagles. Remember, he was injured in 2017, and it was Nick Foles who played in all those playoff games and the Super Bowl, and his QB ratings in those games were off the charts. Nick Foles.
My bottom line on Wentz is he was a great athlete, and he made plays that were pretty amazing on a routine basis. He isn’t that guy anymore, but he thinks he is. If he doesn’t play within the structure of the defense, as designed, and as called, he will be another Dobbs.
Everyone seems to me to be dancing around the issue.
At least to me and what I see, the level of QB play we have had so far, has been poor.
And we are worried that the backup may play poorly?
I for one, was not sold on McCarthy as some generational talent who would come in and play at a high level right off the bat. I expected a little more out of him though than what he’s shown thus far. The O-line hasn’t been as good as we expected either though, so the jury is still out on McCarthy IMO.
In the end, it’s going to be his ability to process that will determine how good he is.
Wentz is not a great processor and never has been. He’s a guy who beats you athletically.
Well that’s what I think should be the discussion item.
Watching good young QB’s I have a bit of an expectation. Several good plays and then a bonehead one like throwing into double coverage. Here, not seeing many good plays but quite a few poorer ones. Seems backwards for a top tier talent. Something seems a miss here.
Is he a top tier talent though? I certainly didn’t think so. He is a good athlete, and he has a strong arm. There are thousands of guys like him though. Good athlete, with a strong arm. In the NFL even the third string guys meet that criteria.
People have universally touted McCarthy’s “intangibles” though. “He’s a winner” and “he has an infectious attitude” is what we heard. Thielen says “he’s built for this”. Well, intangibles, without the tangibles, don’t amount to much in the NFL.
As I said, the jury is still out on McCarthy. Like all young QB’s he has a lot to learn.
Well in my opinion as you suggest – “intangibles” are great but don’t mean squat if you can’t do the “tangible” things well.
He was also really good in 2021 with a shitty Indianapolis team. 94.6 passer, 60.6 QBR…Solid Solid numbers.
That was his last full year as a starter. And it was a good year.
My outlook is generally doom but I have no problems running with Wentz. My opinion is that he will likely get injured within two games behind our top dollar pro bowl offensive line fielding a backup backup LT and backup center.
Darrisaw needs to be back – …That backup left tackle was bad.
Wentz sucks.
I would prefer the team call SLOTERGOAT.
I am rooting for Brosmer to get in the game.
Wentz Sucks
Team Sucks.
Have fun at the game Surly.
Take an Uber and …….
does anyone have any info on Dallas Turner and how he played?
I don’t think i saw anything of him other than a sack in which Penis held the ball for 23 seconds
I don’t have any info other than the eye test. The eye test tells me he plays slow. I don’t think he reads and reacts well – he is athletic as hell though – I think if we ran a simpler scheme he may benefit from that.
But so far I would say he is not worthy of a 1st round pick.
That was the one highlight, with collinsworth (?) getting all clucky like oh boy a lot of people are going to love seeing this when Penix practically jumped in his arms for a man hug.
Haven’t seen a PFF grade yet.
https://x.com/vikingzfanpage/status/1967960468687106557
https://twitter.com/vikingzfanpage/status/1967960468687106557
Better than I thought
Better than I thought
Just giving you options…
^^^
Peg Bundy’s sisters.
This from bookface, no idea if accurate.
Yeah, the twitter links aren’t embedding.
Duh… deep thoughts by Dustin Baker…
If Wentz ‘Balls Out’ do the Vikings replace him with JJ (QB) once he is healthy/fixed again? Tough to sit a hot QB especially for one who has struggled.
Yeah… it really depends on KOC’s commitment to putting the best team on the field vs his desire to “support” his young QB. Sometimes the media drives teams and coaches to do things that are counter to the team’s success. They have played up McCarthy as some great talent, destined to lead the team to a Super Bowl. That narrative may not die easily. The number 8 pick in the draft? Yeah, KOC will face a lot of pressure to give McCarthy a long leash.
So all that said, my guess is, as soon as McCarthy is healthy, he will return to the huddle, regardless of what Wentz does, and regardless if it’s really the right call. McCarthy is the starter. Period.
If Wentz does well, they will probably string JJ’s injury out and say how they don’t want him to come back until he is “100 percent.”
They can maybe play that game for six weeks. Then they probably need to commit to one or the other.
If Carson Wentz plays well there is no way they go back to McCarthy. If McCarthy had played well the 1st two games they certainly would.
You would lose the team if you did that.
Absolutely. There’s pundits, analysts and even team PR staff but inside the locker room there’s a ‘win’ mentality. These guys want to get to the playoffs.
I’m seeing some pundits highlighting McCarthy’s “weakness” throwing the ball to his left. It was something some “analysts” highlighted going into the draft.
To date, in his first two games, he has predominantly thrown the ball to his right. That could be because of our weakness at left tackle though. Play calling may be working away from the left side on purpose, and I think the Falcons might have seen that in the first game, game film.
If McCarthy really does have an issue working the ball to his left, that’s a big problem. It gives defenses a huge edge in their coverage game planning.
Over the rest of the year I guess it will be something to watch. I’m not sold on the idea though personally.
I am also seeing that analysis out there.
Wasn’t that beautiful deep out to Jefferson against the Bears thrown to his left?
I know, its just one throw…but it was pretty.
I remember an out to Jefferson to his left that was a really good throw, but don’t recall a deep out. Might just be getting old. The TD to Jefferson was down the middle and ripped into pretty tight coverage. That was a great throw in my opinion.
I’m not sold at all on the narrative that McCarthy has a weakness throwing to his left.
I would rather play JJ as much as possible this season, so at least I as a fan can decide to fish or cut bait with him going into the third year of his rookie contract, as in we can draft another qb to mentor behind JJ.
The Natural has passed, RIP
https://x.com/barstoolsports/status/1967932580822692167?s=46
One of our greatest actors ever. RIP.
I’m trying to look at things objectively, and honestly we’re 1-1, and we have a team coming in without their star QB. Burrow is a great talent, so we’re lucky we’re not facing him. Conversely we don’t have our starting QB, but that seems more like a blessing in disguise, frankly.
I’ve never been high on Wentz as an NFL QB. He is another in a long line of big, strong, mobile guys who can make plays, but aren’t really great QB’s. Under the circumstances, one can reasonably feel like Wentz could get the job done against the Bengals.
Obligatory he sucks cut him, in reference to Wentz
Good morning, SKOL!
FTP!
FTP Auto Rec.
I am mainly negative for two reasons: if a broken Wentz generates offense, that shows JJ is way off from being a starter. Also, JJ appears to be too fragile for leaving the pocket to run. Okay, maybe three reasons. I have no interest in Wentz. I’d rather watch Brosmer. I never saw him in preseason, but I heard he was kind of neat.
Wentz belongs on the Island of Misfit Toys.
Regardless, offense is trash right now. I watched a lot of the Bucs game last night. They were down their two starting tackles. Mayfield was getting beat up. They still put together drives and scores. Apples and oragnes, but Vikes are simply discombobulated.
I would also rather see Brosmer
If Brosmer sucks for two games, then they can put in Wentz. Might as well have fun with it. But, hey, maybe Wentz will suck for two games, and then Brosmer can go in. Then he can suck for two games, and back to JJ.
Or maybe we can invent something new and run two QBs (with Mason at FB). That way, when our OL fails, at least the rushers will maybe go after the wrong QB.
Or, we could be the first team to give up two sacks on a single play!
Thinking outside the box. I like it!
lol, i like it
We just had a quarterback from the island last year, he did ok.
Darnold was better looking, though. Granted, not as good looking as Herbert, but few are…
Too fat. – FiveHole
2nd!
What happened to FIRST?